From Loss to Purpose: Racing for Something Bigger

On this episode of Fit For Radio, Drew sits down with Rob Crow, an endurance athlete, criminal defense attorney, and devoted husband and father whose story goes far beyond the finish line.

Rob has pushed himself through some of the toughest races in the world, competing in multiple Ironmans and triathlons, each one filled with its own set of challenges, setbacks, and unforgettable moments. From brutal conditions to near breaking points, he shares what it really takes—mentally and physically—to keep going when everything in you wants to stop.

But the most powerful part of Rob’s story happens off the course.

After losing two close friends and his father to cancer in a short period of time, Rob was faced with a level of adversity that reshaped his perspective on life. Instead of stepping away, he leaned in—channeling his passion for endurance sports into something bigger than himself.

Now, Rob is racing with purpose, raising money and awareness for Haymakers for Hope, using every mile as a way to honor those he’s lost and to fight for others still in the battle.

This is a conversation about resilience, perspective, and what it looks like to turn pain into purpose.

Please donate here- https://haymakersforhope.org/events/running/2026-london-marathon/runners/Robert-Crow-LDN26

Transcript

Introduction To Fit For Radio

SPEAKER_03 0:00

She called, she went to the hot they live in North Carolina in the same city in Raleigh. She went, I could hear them like talking to the EMTs and all this stuff. And the EMT still was just his blood sugar was flying. But he still wasn't waking up. And so I asked my sister, I said, I said, really, that should I book a flight? Should I come home? She goes, yeah. So I flew out that way.

Rob Crow's Journey Into Running and Triathalons

SPEAKER_00 0:40

We are at the Stafford Hills Club, my comfort zone, and I was just looking at some pictures. We are coming up on pool season, and that's when the outdoor saltwater pool here transforms into quite the little party palace. So if you want to get dialed in, join the family over here. My whole family comes here. My kid is downstairs in the kids' club as we speak. Don't worry, my wife's here too. I didn't just ditch her to go to work, but all the amenities can be yours too at staffordhills.com. Tell them I sent you, get half off your initiation. I've got a great guest in here today, actually, a guy who has brought me multiple guests in the first place. And finally, I said, you know, the more I learn about you and your story, you seem to be a perfect guest for the show as well. So without further ado, he is a criminal defense attorney, uh, which I would love to sit down and pick uh his brain about that at some point. But really, uh, today is about his journey in not just running, but triathlons, ironmans, and the reality uh that the whole thing is just not that easy. And also a man driven to do bigger things and something big coming up recently, or actually in the near future. Welcome to the show, Rob Crow. Hey, Drew. How are you, buddy? Now, I'm excited to have you in here. Now, I got kind of introduced to your running. Um, our kids play on a soccer team together. Right. And, you know, like there was like rumblings. We were out at some soccer field a ways away, and someone like looks over at me and it's like, yeah, Rob ran here.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

And I'm like, I drove 10 miles on a freeway to get here. It took me 45 minutes. Right. What are we talking about? And so that kind of you know, perked my ears up a little bit. You've got a a long history of running. Where did all this begin for you?

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Well, I mean, as a kid, like I was not big, so I couldn't I had horrible depth perception, so I couldn't catch a baseball. Um, I couldn't catch a football and I was tiny, so maybe could kick. And I got into running and then I mean found a passionate, was decent at it. It wasn't great.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Did you run in high school? Did were you on the organized teams? Were you cross-country? What was the look there? I mean, I liked soccer.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Yeah, you know. I grew up in Virginia, in the southern part, southwest Virginia, that's the South. And nobody cares about cross-country, nobody cares about running. You know, soccer, nobody really cared about either, but a little bit. A little bit more. Right. And, you know, you have that tangible makeup, score a goal, make a basket and basketball, whatever, but you have that in running. But I did find, and in in in life now, there is some relief, you know, some kind of catharsism to to running. And I always enjoyed that. Um and then I grew up way out in the country, so it's pretty in the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia. So we lived halfway down a mountain from the college where my dad taught. So running up the roads and then running with the dog.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

So it was just kind of part of the operation early on for you. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I I knew you liked soccer because actually before our kids were on the same team, you were coaching the other team as we were playing against them. So I knew you had a little bit of um you had a sports itch at least. Now, when when you're in school, though, you said you weren't so great at running, you were just kind of middle of the pack, or yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

I mean, where I grew up in Virginia, um, you know, I was one of the, you know, it was cross-country. You had seven people, the top five count. And I was that, you know, one, two when I was a senior. In Oregon, I would have been like five. So I would have been towards the back. Again, it wasn't as big of a thing in Virginia, but it was decent enough at it. But yeah, I mean, basketball, you know, I didn't make the middle school basketball team. And I wasn't Michael Jordan, so it wasn't like I was gonna make anything beyond that.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, and I I I'll be right there with you. Growing up, not the biggest guy, played soccer. Um, any attempt to play basketball was just immediately driven to the B team. I actually, this is hilarious, Rob. I one time made the A-team tryout in junior high. I think it was a mistake. I because, you know, first day everyone's together, second day, they take everyone for A-team tryouts to a different gym. Right. And I get invited to the second gym, and I'm thinking, I think I'm turning the corner here. I showed up and five minutes in, I was getting wrecked. Ten minutes in, I was sent back to the second gym. Right. So I feel you, you know, born, I say it often, and you know, I've had multiple people on here who do incredible things who agree with this. I I believe I was born painfully average. Right. You know, like there's nothing extraordinary about me. And I think uh a lot of people who do great things, it comes down to not natural ability, it comes down to drive and desire and fight. Right. And, you know, that type of grit. And I feel like you kind of get into some of that because you take that ability to run and you kind of parlay it into doing triathlons and all that. How do how do you go from being a guy who likes to jog to to wanting to do a triathlon?

The Transition From Running to Triathalons

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Well, when I was in college, I would run um again another kind of humbling moment. Uh, I went to UVA undergraduate and I reached out to the the track coach and hey, I can make the team run track. And he told me, Well, I have girls that run faster than you do, which was absolutely true. Yeah. At 18 years old, it hurts, but it was absolutely true. The numbers don't lie. Right. But so I lived in campus housing my second year, and there was a girl lived right next to me. It was on the crew team. Uh, but she would we would run together some and a lot of fun. We were similar at pace. And then she did a triathlon with team and training and cancer fundraiser. And I thought, well, I can do that. I mean, I know how to ride a bike. That's easy enough, no problem. Um, it was a problem. It wasn't nearly that easy, but I mean it was something different. It was fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Yeah, because a bike ride and a triathlon bike ride are two different beasts, right? Right. Like so, in a standard triathlon compared to an Iron Man, which we'll get to, how long are you on a bike for? Well, the first one I did was they call it Olympic distance.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

And so they do it in kilometers. It's 40 kilometers, which is I think 24.8 roughly miles.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yeah, because 10 kilometers is 6.2 miles. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Um and I don't do I tell people if I could do math, I would have been a doctor. As a lawyer, I don't do math usually. Fair enough. Uh at prison months doing criminal law, but other than that, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

How many months are they in jail?

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Right, exactly. But yeah, I it's you know, it's almost 25 miles, so it's longer than it was humbling when I first started out. And growing up in a mountaineer area, it was like, God, we've done like three miles and I'm kind of tired. I'm not anywhere near what I'm gonna have to do. Yeah. So the biking was, but the running or the swimming was really the one that hit me because I knew how to swim, but not well.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Um I think most of us aren't as good as swimmers as we would like to be. You know, when I swim with my kids now, I took the lessons as a kid, but find myself like falling into a side stroke almost too often. And and it just shows that most of us don't have the true technique and the breathing down to where you're gonna flow. And that's the thing with swimming, I think, is it's the technique.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

I it's this is skipping way ahead. But I was doing a swim group one time, and it was a guy who was an awesome swimmer, but hadn't swum in like a year. But because his technique was so dialed in and so good, he was faster than everybody else, even though he wasn't really trained. But he just his technique was down. But yeah, my first race, I jumped in the water and in a lake that I knew well where I grew up. It was a river that is dammed up, so I knew it was deep. Yeah. And there were no lane lines at the bottom of this lake. I was used to that in the pool. And I being able to guide that way. I was all over the place. So I I feel like I doggy paddled.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Rob, you're going backwards!

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Yeah. Or, you know, it's bad when you're swimming and then suddenly there's a boat. Or there's somebody, you know, now they have everybody on like the ski ski-dos or on stand-up paddle boards, and they're like, go that way. Guiding you. Right. And so like I'm way off course. But yeah, I I think I doggy paddled the my first so a swim is one and a half kilometers, it's like 0.96 miles. And it took me almost an hour.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Because it doesn't sound like a lot, but when you're swimming, and especially once you've blown the technique, right, and you go to the doggy paddle. I mean, get in the middle of a pool and doggy paddle to the edge, it takes a bit.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

And and to cross a lake that way, yeah. Were you just exhausted when you got out? Or I was. I was so impressed.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

And the thing is, you don't think about I don't, you know, you don't use your feet, you don't kick a lot. You're using your legs when you swim in a triathlon, but I was just jelly. Like I had legs, it hurt to get out and go.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

And now you've still gotta you've still gotta ride the bike and run. Right, right. That's amazing. So you obviously you make it out of the water. Do you complete that triathlon? I did. Um, I don't know that I officially should have finished. It wasn't, it wasn't like a big race series. Where they were uh the judges and the whole deal is like get there and be done.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Right, right. Because I forgot to put my race number on for the run. And so you have like a race and I forgot to put it on. So I didn't have any number. And you know, now in races they mark you with a sharpie, your number and stuff. I didn't have any of that. So this random guy. Right. They counted it. I mean, obviously, they said this this poor schmuck is struggling. He must be doing it. Yeah. But they counted my finish, and so I made it. But yeah, that was a humbling experience that it was harder than I expected.

Overcoming Challenges In Swimming

SPEAKER_00 10:00

So that's all a learning experience where you know you probably here's the question actually associated to the swimming. What do you do to improve on that for the next time? Are you relying on hopefully there will be lane lines, or did you figure out a way to keep yourself from doggy paddling in the future? Well, you got to practice in the open water.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

So I did that a little more than just you know, once. And I actually took a swim class at UVA. Um I needed a credit and it fit in my schedule. And so learning some technique helped a lot. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, your head's not up the whole time or your body just sinks. And so learning that helped a lot. I mean, really, it was later, probably gosh, I don't know how 10 years later, when I trained with a group with a woman that actually was a coach, a swim coach, and learned technique that I really improved or was less bad. Um, but yeah, starting out, it was there's so many different things you have to take into account. And the fact that you're not gonna swim straight. Well, a guy, Taddy helped me coach me, and he would say, in the pool, every once in a while, I want you to close your eyes and swim a lab. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

See, but as you hit lane lines, you realize I'm not swimming straight. See, I feel like I'd get turned upside down with that. You know, it's like um when somebody says, do a cartwheel in a hallway, because it's like you're thinking about something else, you're gonna hit the wall every time. I feel like if I the first time you told me to swim with my eyes closed, I would hit the sidewall, not the not the end wall.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Right. And if the lane lines hurt, the the ropes that have the plastic and so I hit it a few times. This sucks. I'm not doing this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah, that's amazing. Now, you also kind of had to get used to riding a bike with the clipless pedals, right? Didn't you have a moment where at some point, I don't know if this is before or after that triathlon, it's got to be after because you're do you ride with clips in that triathlon? You know, I don't remember. I don't think I did. So you eventually do try those out and you go for a ride by the uh Lincoln Memorial. What happened there?

SPEAKER_03 12:00

Yeah, I was in DC right with with this friend, um, and we're riding along, and we get to right by the Lincoln Memorial, there's a big circle, traffic circle. Yeah. And I didn't quite clip out. And just toppled. I mean, I think every probably biker who uses clipless pedals experienced this at some point. But I just I fell over on the sidewalk. Years later, we practiced falling in a field so that you don't put your arm down.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Um, which was helpful for me later on later on when I wrecked. But yeah, I I just toppled right over. People are like, what's this guy doing? It was humbling, right? Yeah, not only am I not fast, or the girls faster than I am, but I can't even stand up on a bike.

The Humbling Experience of Clipless Pedals

SPEAKER_00 12:37

If it makes you feel any better, the first time I clipped into those was on a Peloton, not even you couldn't fall left or right, but nobody told me that I needed to let the pedals slow themselves down. So like I think I basically was a half inch away from blowing my left knee out because I tried to stop a weighted wheel. And uh, so I almost wrecked on a stationary bike, Rob. So at least uh at least you've got that. The only difference is there was no one there to laugh at me. You were by the Lincoln Memorial, I'm sure. Uh, and luckily for you, it's probably not at a time where everybody is doing a selfie video all the time. So selfies back then for sure. Because you you don't need a B team YouTube showing up abuse, right? Laying there, help! Yeah, everybody's laughing at this guy falling over. But you these are things, these are growing pains for you, right? And and you don't allow this to let you quit. Um, you refuse to quit. You keep on going on. Now, um, what's your thought process here? Why do you want to take it to the next level?

SPEAKER_03 13:37

You know, I don't know. I I there there's a community to it that I didn't learn until I got to Birmingham when I was in law school. Uh, but just people that want to do it. And one of the things I found with triathlon is I think for the most part, people just want to do it. Even the really long races, even the fast people, it's hey, you did it. That's great. Having fun with it, not so intense that you see with like running, I think, even, or some other sports, you know, football, basketball, different things. It feels like more of a community. And I I didn't much enjoy law school. Uh, I didn't have a lot of friends there who I had some friends, but I didn't hang out with people regularly. I was very kind of different. I grew up a little more liberal in Virginia, as you might expect, the Southern Baptist Law School, not the most liberal. So I found this community with triathlon with people that weren't part of that. And I really enjoyed that. And you could, I think with anything, when you start out or you're learning, the improvements, the scale just so fast, you improve, you notice it. You know, much later improvements take a lot longer to really recognize and they're much slower. But they're just in, you know, in the pool, I realized God I'm getting faster and it's getting better. Or I'm feeling fit. Or people, you know, a short triathlon doesn't take but two, three hours. It's like people get are in all of that. It's it's not that, not that big of a deal. Like most people could do it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I think people are scared off by daunting ideas. Right. You know, and I talk about this all the time. It's the failure to launch, you know, it's the oh, I can't do that, and so I don't do that. And a triathlon, it's a big name on it. Same thing with an Iron Man. It's like, oh, I don't know. It's just that it just seems daunting, so I'm just not gonna. And you said this to me um when I saw you run from Delta Park, which is I think it's 15 miles on a freeway from where we live. You live near where I live, and you ran home. And you said to me before you go, something along the lines of, you know, the the toughest step is the first step. And it's just once you start, it's fine. But it's like, do I want to do this? Right. And even for a guy who's done a bunch of this stuff, you know that. And you still have to convince yourself. It's the same thing with me. Every day I wake up and do the same regimen, do my push-ups and the Peloton. You're you're human. Your mind's like, nah. Right, nah. But you kind of have to be like, no, start. And then once you start, you're like, well, of course I do that. Right. And that wasn't so bad.

Finding Community in Triathalons

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Yeah, I mean, I can think of a handful of workouts where gosh, I wish I hadn't done that. But those are ones like when I wrecked the bike years later. But yeah, maybe it's it is the I don't know who first said it, but you said the first, the hardest two steps are the first two out the door. And that was, yeah, going from Delta Park. Obviously, not on the interstate. The run was not much longer because you can follow interstate, I think is the the road and hits Denver. And then I mean, it's that's the part of the fun part for me running and going different places. You can go on vacation and you go for a run. You don't have to take your bike, you don't have to take your Peloton, you don't have to take your weights, and you can experience new things that and I have a hard time just sitting around. My wife complains when we go, if we go on vacation to like the beach, everybody wants to lay out on the beach. I can't do that. I'll go nuts. Yeah, you gotta do something. Right. And and you learn lessons that way. Uh we went to Jamaica for a friend's wedding, uh, and I ran off of actually uh ran off of the the the all-inclusive resort some. And you see parts of Jamaica you don't otherwise see. And I went down the beach some and I had some police officers stop me and go like, go back. Yeah, you're going in the wrong spot. Don't don't leave your that that one little all-inclusive area, go back.

The Challenge of Ironman Competitions

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah. And Mexico's the same way. You get two, three streets off of the main drag, and it g it's a little sketchy. Right. Uh but you don't you don't experience a lot of that stuff. You don't do it unless you go out and you gotta leave the walls of the resort to actually be able to be a part of that. I think um, you know, I I'm a guy who I do like to hang at the beach and I can sit there for a while, but I have to go do my stuff before I can allow any of that to happen. Right. And I'm on vacation and I'm still like, no, no, no, no, no. This is I'm gonna, this is gonna be sideways. And Amy's like, get your swim trunks on and stop. But I have to before like send them to breakfast, and I'll go to the little, whatever sweaty little gym the thing has, which are a lot of those are quite third world. Um, now you as you're as you're kind of like going along, you do shift at a point. And I want to talk about um what makes you decide to do Ironmans. Now, I had another guy on who's done a bunch of Iron Man's, and he explained to me that most of the Iron Man factor are just longer distances across the three disciplines. Is that exactly so um when you decide to do an Iron Man? I thought it was pretty funny that you know, to finish this Iron Man that you went and did, you have to finish in 16 hours? Is that 17 hours? 17 hours. So you have to beat that cutoff or it doesn't count. Right. So what was that like for you and how was it different from doing a triathlon? Because like you were saying before, someone like me is like, okay, well, maybe it's not that different, but seems to be quite a bit different.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

Well, it's again, it's uh the saying, or I've had a friend say, uh, you know, it's not about who's fastest, it's who slows down the least. Because you can't sprint at distance. You can't go that hard that long. I think I got into when I was in Alabama, one of the guys that I got to be friends with had done an Iron Man. And everybody down there does Iron Man Florida, which is one of the faster, it's pretty flat. It's one of the faster Iron Man races. But again, as part of the community, giving me something to to train for. Um, when I moved to Oregon, I didn't know anybody. And so it was something to do. Um, and I don't know, I was just, yeah, it was different. It was like, I want to see if I can do this challenge with this, this long event.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Yeah. And if you finish an Iron Man, you know, people are very proud of like completing a marathon. And if I did, I would be very proud of it too. And they've got the sticker on the back of the car and and everything. But I feel like when you are an Iron Man, it's and it's totally different. And with all due respect to the military, but it's almost like once you're a Marine, you're a Marine. Right. You know, and like when you're an Iron Man, you're forever an Iron Man. And, you know, to some people might argue, why does that matter? Why does it not? As someone who enjoys physical fitness and the and and I have respect for the struggle, to me, it's pretty amazing. And I can see why somebody would want to chase such a thing. Was that something that you wanted that title, or did you just want to see if you could test yourself on that level?

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Yeah, I mainly want to see if it could, you know, test itself and see if you can go that, you know, they'll go that far, do that long of a race. And, you know, I when I was getting into a lot of this stuff, I was still young and dumb and thought I can do anything. Um, you know, learn the hard way, riding a bike, falling over, or no lane lines in the pool, or things like that. But yeah, the first iron when I did, I was so unprepared. I thought this was gonna be, I knew it was gonna be hard, but not that hard.

The Ironman Experience Begins

SPEAKER_00 20:46

But isn't that kind of what is the beautiful about it is if you knew, then maybe you're deterred. Right. But it's almost that the young dumb inside of us sometimes works out. Right, exactly. And and it's I'll think about something afterwards and go, I probably would not have done that if I knew how tough it was, but I'm so glad I accomplished it. Right. And so that's kind of where you get. And I want to break down your first Iron Man because it's got uh it's got all the ups, the downs, and the sideways, and um even an 82-year-old nun in the story. You're listening to the Fit for Radio podcast brought to you by the Stafford Hills Club. It's a place, let's be honest, you gotta check it out. Of course, it's the premier indoor-outdoor tennis facility where you can take lessons, you can play with your friends, tournaments, all kinds of stuff. Also, saltwater pool, an amazing kids' club with a group of people who take care of my wild kids. And that's saying a lot all by itself. So check it out staffordhills.com, all the amenities, you're not going to be disappointed. Voted the best health and wellness facility. In the Portland area. And of course, tell them Drew sent you for half off your initiation at the Stafford Hills Club. What do you what do you run into when you get there? Well, they it used to be they would start everybody all at once.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Um the men and the women? Right. So there were roughly 2,000 people in that argument. Okay. And you know, you're there, you're there at four o'clock in the morning, and you walk up and you know, they're marking you with these sharpies, and you can just the intensity, you can feel it. I mean, it's just palpable in the air. And you down, and I realized I couldn't win this, not gonna be the fastest guy. And it's terrifying when you would, I mean, it's like a washing machine with all those people swimming around. Oh, yeah. So I hung back. I mean, I think some people would swum 100 meters before I got in the water. And in the quarter lane, it was two laps. So you turn, you're gonna think, Oh, I'm halfway, and you realize, oh no, I'm only a quarter of a way. Oh you have to come out, you have to get out, actually get out of the water and run around a cone and go back in, which is just torture. You're like, I'm out, my legs are tired. And then you're back in. They're pushing you back in. Niterally pushing you back. Yeah, but directing you. Go right back in. And so that was that was a learning experience. That was tough. Um, I actually got out of the water, I think, a little faster than I was expecting, or less slow than I was expecting. Less doggy paddling these days. Exactly. So it was, I mean, it wasn't a ton slower than my one and a half kilometer, 0.96 mile swim, the first race. Yeah, do a 2.4 mile swim. Um, but yeah, get on the bike and you're going, and uh it's like, oh, great. And like getting close. It's what it's like a water stop at mile 10, and like I got to go 112 miles.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

So I uh a question about that. You know, it's hard to train for that type of distance, especially when you have a you know a family or you've got a full-time job, and you, you know, you don't just you're not just a professional athlete who can go haul off and do 100 miles on the bike all the time. How did you even get yourself to where you figured you could do that? Well, at the time, I didn't have a family and kids, so I had more than so you had that going.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Right. Uh and in college, when I was younger, I would uh ride the bike on a trainer inside and watch basketball games. So I got to be a big, couldn't play, but I liked watching basketball. Yeah, of course. And so then once I was getting into longer races, I discovered NBA games last longer than college games. So I could get in a longer ride watching an NBA game. But that's an easy. I uh I watched Training for an Iron Man, I watched uh Narcos, the whole series of Narcos, Mexico. So it's like you can get into stuff. Uh but yeah, it's hard when you've got once you have a family, you know, you have to run home from Delta Park to get timing to ride.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, is only when you are alone in the main streets of Portland do you get a little bit of time to yourself. Right, right. Which is smart. Um, so you're in you're in this race, you get on the bike, you've your your legs are already kind of like gelatin. Are you thinking, you know, the mind is an incredible thing, but it's also dangerous. Is there any time while you're riding this bike that you're starting to think that this might be a a no-go?

SPEAKER_03 25:09

I mean, there were definitely times when I'm like, this is a lot harder than I was expecting. Or do I really want to do this? Uh but I think what helped, uh as I've progressed and done more races, is breaking it down. Instead of saying, oh, you know, first aid station, mile 10, I got 112, 102 miles left to go, you know, breaking it up, okay. This is halfway through this loop or whatever that can be with an with a marathon, it's breaking it down to it's a 10 mile or a 10 mile or a 10K rather than, you know, gosh, I've got you know 18 miles left to go.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah. And I think keeping it, the blinders on a little bit, that this is what's right in front of me. Um, it's the same thing with anything where you're trying to break a record or get a good time. You can't think way down the line because you might it might get too daunting. Right, right. Um, so do you you make it through there? At what point are you kind of like keeping an eye on the clock? Because if you finish anyway, in your mind you still did it, but there's something about official time and you know being in the book as someone who completed the Iron Man. How does this thing kind of turn out?

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Yeah, so usually the race starts at 7 a.m., or it used to be, and so you have until midnight. Um, it kind of starts to become real. I think, oh, hey, I've got a clock. When they give you the light up kind of uh necklace type things, it's like it's late, we want people to be able to see you. So we have these, you know, the neon. Yeah, so you can glow. Right. So that that's one of the moments that really hits you that oh gosh, you know, there's a clock going. Or one one time my watch died. And so no.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Oh gosh, no, I know. It's been enough time where I'm my clock, right? My watch has died, so it's been a bit. Um, so you get into the running portion, which you know, we I've already said running is your your jam. So when you've done that long swim, you've over a hundred, how over a hundred kilometers did you say? How long is the bike? 112 miles. 112 miles. So when you get done with that, how much of your running skill is left? And how much are you running on just mentals?

SPEAKER_03 27:16

And I feel like most of most of it's mental. I mean, the first, I've heard it said, I think it's true. I my first Iron Man, I had never done a marathon. And so now having done it a marathon, you know, the first few miles, five, 10 miles, you don't feel your legs. And so you don't notice it as much. And so it's you're going a lot more on adrenaline. It's I I think being a runner in that race especially didn't make a lot of difference because I did a lot of walking. My marathon was, I think, six hours and something. It was slow. Uh, but yeah, it's it's it's a lot of adrenaline. Having the the muscle memory and all that stuff definitely helps. But being a runner, then didn't I for me didn't make a lot of difference because I was already slow.

The Race Day Dynamics

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, and it's funny because you know, you watch the Iron Man stuff on TV and Kona and the whole Hawaii thing, and you're looking at the pro athletes on TV who never walk. And, you know, but it's that's also a very smart move to rather than give up just to stop running for a bit, gain your momentum back, and then take off again. Um, so it is there's a game plan kind of there, like not to let yourself get too gassed. How did you work that out?

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Well, a lot of people, you know, I was walking a lot, but for a lot of people, it's you run and then walk to aid stations. Yeah, you don't want it once you completely stop, it's a lot harder to get going again. But if you at least walk to aid stations, if you're giving yourself a little reprieve and then back at running or jogging or whatever you trotting, whatever you've got left.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

So if you so what happens at the end of the race? You're running low on clock, it's dark. Um, what where are you at? How do you finish?

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Well, so there's uh Mike Riley was there are a few of the voices of Iron Man. He's I mean, it guy is so much energy, bouncing off of the wall, like a towel waving it around. He's the one that yells, whatever your name, you are an Iron Man. And so everybody cheers. But the last hour, because everybody knows if you don't finish by midnight, it doesn't count. So many people come back out. Like if you finish in 13, 14 hours, there are people there cheering. But it's everybody at the end when they're looking at their watches and they're like, You got like two minutes and you got a hundred meters to go. Go, go. Let's go. You're kind of trying to motivate. Right. So I you could hear the finish line. This was in Queer d'Alane, Idaho. You could I could hear the finish line from a mile away. Wow. And it's like, okay, now you've got that energy back. There's also like a high school or a college fraternity, and guys were the keg drinking beer, and I was like, that seems really tasty. I gotta get done. But yeah, that last, that, that last, I think they're probably a quarter of a mile, third of a mile is a somewhat downhill, not steep, but downhill grade main street, and uh, I think it's Sherman Avenue. So if you don't fall down, that helps a little. Right, right. Or you can roll. I mean, you just have to finish. You see people crawl or or it's just stagger. Yes. But yeah, everybody comes back out. So the energy is amazing in that last hour. And I think it was 16 hours and 12 minutes. So it was, you know, 11, 12 at night when I'm coming through. But it got especially loud when I was coming through that made me feel special. Yeah, you like you were having your moment. Yeah. And then I told you I realized that none of that was for me. There's a guy who's really well known, famous in Idaho, at least, quarter lane. He wears full fireman gear on the run. And this dude was ahead of me. I'm like, this is really humbling. Yeah. And then it got even louder. And there's a late sister Madonna, who was 82 years old at the time, and she'd done 20-some, 30, I don't know how many Iron Man races. And she finishes right where you're at? About where I was. That's incredible. But so the nice thing, at least in that kind of a race, is that since everybody started at the same time, you knew, okay, it's not like she started later than me and she's faster than I am. But yeah, sister Madonna at 82 years old was was going through and finishing about the same time I did.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

That's it's wild that somebody can do that. And it it is, it speaks volumes to the fact that when someone's like, I'm too old for that, that's about enough of that. Right. You gotta, if you use it or lose it. And I'm guessing that she uh had a long history of using it. Um, so you finish that Iron Man, and and is that when you complete that, is that the type of thing where you're hungry immediately for more, or are you like that have checked that box? What's like the normal human reaction to that?

SPEAKER_03 31:38

For me, it was well, I know I can improve. You know, I couldn't get a lot worse. You know, I had 38 minutes or whatever it was. Yeah, I wouldn't have been a finisher. So it was partly that. But you have so much adrenaline just having finished, um, that you're like, yeah, I could have done that better, or that was exciting. I want to do it. And there's that little bit, I guess part of it is, you know, what's wrong with you? Why would you want to do that again when you know it hurts to walk and you're chafing, you've got whatever else going. But yeah, there's something, and you know, once you're into it, I think where it is, I could improve, or the the rush of that. Yeah. It's for a lot, you know, it's like doing drugs, you know, it's like, oh, all the excitement, the adrenaline going, the endorphins, and it's like, all right, you gotta do that again.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah, I totally get it. And it's also one of those deals, like when I tried to break the world record for pushups in an hour, you finish and you immediately start thinking about what could I have done better? But while you're hurting, like in those even in the hour afterwards, you're it's you normally get sore like days later. You do intense things like an Iron Man or that push-up thing, and you immediately feel soreness and you're like, uh-oh. Right. This is gonna be a problem. But people are asking, when are you gonna do it again? I think you could do this. And you, there's a part of you that knows that you probably could, but it is daunting to do it again. So it takes a special type of person to be like, all right, that hurt. Let's go again.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Well, and Iron Man, I mean a lot of races, but Iron Man is a big name. They have it figured out in a number of ways to monetize it. They the sign up for the race, you know, some of the races sell or used to sell out. If you did the race, you sign up the next day, you can get in. Or volunteer, like I volunteer I signed up then to volunteer for Iron Man Canada so that I could get first to the district because that one sells out. So they realize the next morning, the endorphins, everything's still going. Still get everyone on board. Right. Or they have finisher's gear at their tent. Everybody lines up and spends hundreds of dollars they would otherwise know better than to do. Yeah. But that everything's still like you're still jacked up and excited.

Overcoming Adversity: The Accident

SPEAKER_00 33:38

So of course you you do all that stuff that in your better mind you would have been like, not a chance, but while you're there, and it's the FOMO, you know, it's like, well, registration's gonna fill, you're right here, you can do this, you already showed, and everyone else is signing up. So brilliant little uh piece of positioning out of them to keep the keep the meter going. So the next year was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

It signed up, you know, some friends from Portland that went and did Court d'Alane, and then we were gonna do Canada the next year, Iron Man Canada. Um, and we signed up and then learned um so that uh well, I guess we were trying to we volunteered that summer um at the Iron Man Canada because if you volunteer, you'd sign up first. So that's all still going when we sign up. I actually tore my ACL right after that playing soccer. Oh learning that I wasn't as young as I used to be. So training for an Iron Man also included rehabbing a torn ACL. Which is no joke. No, no, it wasn't that was hard. I mean, that was recovering from that and rehab. I'm convinced the physical therapist wanted to make me cry with all the stuff he's on, but it's I ended up, I think, being stronger, at least lower body, than I'd ever have been. Which is lucky definition rehab, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Because that can go two ways. You know, my wife tore ACL, MCL, and meniscus, and we had to have the surgery twice, and it snap crackles and pops on her to this day. Um, but who knows how bad it would be without the surgery. But it's good to hear that you got stronger because you hear these stories where, you know, we're not trying to make you who you were, we're trying to make you stronger. And you you felt that? Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

I mean, I thought I thought, you know, because I never did a lot of weights. You know, it is it's interesting. Used to be runners didn't do weightlifting, didn't do any strength stuff. And now it's like science says you should. A lot of a lot of my friends who were older when I work at running stores, who are you know, 60s now, never lifted, never doing that stuff. And now, you know, knees replaced, hips replaced. So guys who were really fit, but your body just can't take all that. And so that helped me kind of learn okay, there is a strength aspect you have to do. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Um so you do how many Ironmans uh before you run into uh having to having to work your way back?

SPEAKER_03 35:54

I guess it was the third one I did. I was I'd signed up with a friend for Ironman, Wisconsin. Um, and just training while this, I think this is what you were leading into, uh, while my wife and I were expecting our first kid. And I was doing a workout from northwest Portland, go out to Savvy Island at loop and back, which is about 30 miles. And the goal was to hit an hour and a half. Okay. And I was coming back from Salvi Island, I knew I was a little bit behind my goal, and started pushing it. And then I uh I saw, I could hear and see my front tire pop and explode. Oh. And I say to myself, something I know your show is clean, so I can't say on your show. You can say whatever you want. Um, and then the next thing I remember uh was a fire truck, and this lady had stopped. Um, it's called the fire truck, and I pointed at one of those road IDs, which I swear by now, because I couldn't have remembered my wife's phone number. But for this lady, I could just point at it and she called. And apparently, as a as a woman who's four or five months pregnant, the phone call you don't want is hey, your husband's been in a bike accident. The ambulance is on the way. He can't speak. Right. But yeah, this lady said she could see the tire just explode. Oh my. Uh so yeah, I ended up breaking my left hand. I've broken my left hand twice, once playing soccer and once riding a bike, which is don't not usually how people break hands. Like uh knocked myself out, cracked the frame of the bike. Um you went down extremely hard. I was going like twenty, twenty-five. I was probably going like twenty-five miles per hour. But fortunately, this was one of those where I'd practiced falling. Because you know, where people usually mess themselves up even more is put their arm out. Naturally, that's what you want to do. That's when people break collarbones, do all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

So were you supposed to tuck the arm? So you kind of fall.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Take it on the fatty part of the shoulder or on the on the muscle. Right. So my my right hand was scratched up, but it was the left hand that I broke. Um, and then I swear by the helmet, too. I mean, because it was cracked, and OHSU was doing a study at the time on helmets, I guess. And they wanted to keep it to do stuff. So I don't have any use for it anymore. Once it's cracked, it's done. But yeah, I swear by him now, an aside for you. I in our neighborhood, one of the kids, my our daughters are seven, um, or not at the time was seven. Yeah. She's not nine. Yeah. And one of our friends was riding a bike down the street without a helmet. And I stopped, I started to stop him and tell him why helmets are so important. And his mother was, don't, don't do that. You'll scare him. And I looked at our other neighbor whose house we were at. I was like, Yeah, that's the point.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah, you're supposed to scare them. You will get extremely hurt without it. I have been a long time supporter of wearing helmets. And, you know, when you're a kid, you don't want to wear it, you want to be cool. But the older I got, I don't care. Right. You know, I ride a bike, and you know, not of the distances that you do, but you know, you're climbing up these hills, there's cars coming by you, there's other obstacles. And, you know, I've had people who were like, Well, you look like a nerd. Right. I'm like, a living nerd is what I look like. Uh, a one who can still read, write, and compute. So you bang that little noggin of yours one time the wrong way, and you're a vegetable. So I don't care how cool I look.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Yeah. I had a friend who's or her brother was a little bit, I had gotten to know him a little bit, but even was wearing a helmet and going 45 miles per hour down a hill, did something, killed him instantly. Yeah. You gotta do it. But you're probably safe in your Peloton without a helmet.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah. Well, I, you know, half the time, Rob, I'm wearing that thing. Better safe than sorry. Uh so you you fall off that thing, and that kind of puts you back at ground zero on training.

Race Day Realities and Strategies

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah, so I did, well, I had to get the bike fixed, and and it's a carbon frame, which historically you can't fix. Unfortunately, there are a few places in the country that can fix carbon frames and do it well. And one of them is here in Portland, Ruckus Composites. And it's fascinating what they do. They fill the frame with water, use like an ultrasound sonogram, whatever it is, to see where the cracks are.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Shave it down, put new carbon on their paint. And you it's hard to tell. If you know where exactly it was, you could tell. But I thought, you know, as I'm leaving the hospital with a hand in a sling and, you know, five-month pregnant wife was very unhappy with me. I'm thinking, I gotta get a new bike. Yeah. Um, but fortunately I was able to fix it. But nice. Yeah, I was, you know, sitting on a recumbent bike. Not how most people try uh to train for a triathlon or an Iron Man, but a recumbent bike in the gym was all I could do.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Yeah, it's something it's better than just kind of turning into a fossil. Um, so you you kind of get back to to having better times here because when you you come back faster.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Well, I was supposed to do Iron Man Wisconsin with a friend, and then realized uh it was, I think September was the race, and this was in June or July when I write. So it's like I got a lot of training still to do and not much time. And I've got to do this recovery. So I was able to switch and do Iron Man Louisville, which was I think in November, October. So it gave me like another month, month and a half. Uh and that was my yeah, that was my best race when I got there. And some of it can be, you know, the conditions. That's one of the the hard and great things about outdoor like marathons or just running events or triathlon, it's the weather, you never know. And in Louisville it was great. And I don't you know why I had a better race there than some other races. Because you finished in, is that the one where you finished in 13 hours, 14 minutes? I think it was like 13, 14. So my goal was under 13 hours going into Wisconsin. Still pretty incredible. Right. Well, and you know, that's one of those when you finish and you retrospect and you realize sports, if I just hadn't walked quite so much or stopped so long in that one. You know, on the bike, they've got a rest area every or not rest area, but like aid station and then toilets every 10 miles or so. And you're kind of like, God, if I hadn't waited in that long line, you know, that's like two or three minutes. So that's kind of what's going through your head, I think, at the end.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

So the toilets are there along the way. And, you know, I I talked to a lady who does ultras as well, actually, a friend of yours, uh, Liz, and she said that, you know, if you aren't at the bathroom, you can you could just use the bathroom wherever. Is that frowned upon in these races compared to an ultra? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Well, so Iron Man has it's it's it's interesting the different rules of different types of races. Uh Iron Man, you're not allowed to, you know, you have to use the aid stations. You can't throw trash. Whereas like the Marine Corps Marathon in DC, as you're coming back into DC, the first part of the races in Virginia, you're coming back into DC towards um the park, Rock Creek Park, and you see it feels like hundreds of guys standing on the side of the road just peeing in the bushes.

The Heat of Coeur d'Alene

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Uh that gets you disqualified in an iron. Okay. So that's where my question was. So you have to wait in the line if you've got to pee. Or pee on the bike. I I that's something I can't do. Oh, so just they just pee their pants on the bike? So the the pros, you know, you just doing what, eight, nine. They're not gonna waste any minutes. No, no. So when they finish, they've all soiled themselves. Probably. I would think so. That's or maybe not if I mean if you don't, my guess is you're not hydrated enough. Yeah, exactly. Um, I want to talk to you about um you you talked about weather and how that can affect things. And um, I'm not sure exactly how it fits into the timeline, but I want to talk about Court Elaine. The Fit for Radio podcast is brought to you by the Stafford Hills Club. And if you've never come here and taken one of their classes, you really should do so. Their instructors are really good. I took the Pilates Reformer class here, and she made me feel like I could be comfortable in the room. Let's get it right, though. I've got a lot to learn when it comes to Pilates, but that's how you do it. You just got to show up and give it your best, right here at Stafford Hills. They make you feel comfortable, and it's a family environment, not just being able to bring your family here, but also the people together feel like. Of family, check out everything to offer at Staffordhills.com. Tell them Drew sent you for half off your initiation. Because the Queer d'Alane situation is 106 degrees outside. Now, when you get to Queer d'Alane, are they talking about any possibility of canceling the race? Because it is there must be a cap where it's dangerous. But what happened in Queer d'Alane? Well, I thought 106 was dangerous, but obviously it wasn't their cap.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

Because they kept going. Right. I don't, I mean, I it seemed like they should have. It would have been safer. Um but it when it was 106 there, I think it was like 115 in Portland.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Was that like the heat dome? Right. That was when it was so hot. Where it just it destroyed my garden in like an afternoon. Just torched it. Right. So everybody's waiting to see.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

2021 was an interesting year because they did a race later that year. We're supposed to. They got atmospheric river rained out. But quarterline was so hot. Yeah, we thought they're going to cancel it. And then the morning, or they say before we're going to start at 6 a.m. instead of seven, hoping that in Queer d'Alane that out on the bike, it's high desert kind of no tree cover. It's hot. As much as possible, we want to get people off the bike before it gets really, really hot. On the run, there's some shade. It's easier to stop when you're running. Yeah. Um, so that was their goal is to do that. But it was, oh yeah, it was scorching.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

It was wild. So what were you dealing with? So what was, you know, the water is fine, you know, because you get out of the water, at least the water's cooling a little bit, but the bike had to have been cooking with the asphalt and the the heat coming off of there. It's gonna multiply that heat.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Yeah, I mean, so the swim, when you're talking about those cutoff kind of numbers, they do by temperature, whether you at a certain if it's cold enough, you have to wear a wetsuit. If it's a certain temperature, you could you can still wear a wetsuit. I think it's like 73 degrees, but your time doesn't count towards like winning a place. Uh if it's a certain temperature or even a higher temperature, you're not allowed to wear a wetsuit. So that's one of the things we're all watching because you're faster with a wetsuit, you're more buoyant. And so it's like, is it gonna be at that temperature? I think it was not so hot that you couldn't wear it, but hot enough that it you didn't officially count as a as you couldn't win your age group. So did you wear it? Oh, yeah. I was like, I'm not gonna name my age group. I want to be comfortable and fast or or less slow. But yeah, the swim was was okay. You get out of the bike, and I'm starting out okay, but probably I don't know, 10, 15 miles into the bike. I I'm off the side a little bit with this this rumble strip can wake you up if you're driving, you start to fall asleep. And lost my water bottle. Oh no. And so I guess it wasn't that far, it's probably five miles in. And so I'm thinking Got no water? No water, I'm screwed for the next five, whatever miles until you can get to hydration. Right. So that's when you're counting the time and you're going, gosh, I got you know four miles or whatever. But I think that ultimately saved my race because it made me slow down. Because if you keep pushing over exertion and you could have collapsed. Yeah. It was you know, aerobars, people have the triathlon bikes where you're down because you're more aerodynamic. But I could you couldn't do that because it was so hot. You had to stay up? Yeah, the heat coming off of the I mean, I couldn't. The heat coming off the asphalt, it's 106 degrees outside. But then you have all the 130 coming off the ground. Right. It was just it was miserable. So you're sitting up for it. Uh but that yeah, that was a race that was awful.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

And so were people falling by the wayside there? How how were the rest of your, you know, the people in the field doing?

SPEAKER_03 47:31

I see, I mean, there were I think a lot, there were a lot of people stopping. I don't I can't remember on the bike so much how many people stopped, but on the run, there were people getting sick. Um, I had a buddy who, after a few times stopping and getting sick, they were like, you know, the race officials were you should really stop. This is not good. I mean, in retrospect, they probably shouldn't have done the race, but I think it was 27% of starters didn't finish, which is one of the highest ever in an Ironman. That's a big clip.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

What for you? Did were you able to rally through and finish? I did. You know, I one of the things being less fast, I tend to make friends in the race.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

And on the run, it makes it go faster if you're interacting with people. Yeah. And so there was a guy, I can't remember his name, but I remember he's from San Diego. And we ran walked most of the run together. And, you know, you're sore. In this case, feet are all blistered because the fire department somehow had set up the fire hydrants so they were like sprinklers. And people had sprinklers set outside of their house. And it's like, you know, this is gonna mess up my feet. It's gonna make them wet, and I'm gonna be all blistered. But it's so hot, it feels good. Yeah, you're just like, I'm gonna take that. Right. So, you know, we're walking, running most of it together. He had not done an Iron Man before, so I was like, Yeah, we got to hit this time. This was the race when my watch died. And I was like, I I knew I started before he did. And he's kind of kind of keeping track of time for him. And I can't remember how much how far out ahead you are. Yeah, so I'm like, I feel like I gotta run a little bit because I'm not gonna finish this thing at like 12.02 and not be a finisher. Uh, but yeah, I mean that helped having somebody that you're interacting with because otherwise you're out there in the dark all by yourself. It's like Hood to Coast, you know, where you're running over the mountain range and nobody's around, it's really lonesome. But here I made a couple of friends and we finished together.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

And I think if you're left to your own devices, it's kind of can be dangerous. You know, doubt leaks in when somebody else is there to motivate you and you don't want to quit in front of somebody. Right, right. Right? So, like if you and I are running along and I'm hurting and you're kind of hurting, I'm just gonna kind of keep going until I collapse. Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:33

And you can think, and it you think about it if we're talking and you're learning about there ended up being a girl that stopped or that joined us in the last few miles. But I think he and I probably ran, walked, crawled, struggled together for 18 miles.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

And I feel like those are the things that you will remember forever. And you'll you'll remember all of these accomplishments, but the ones that were hard and daunting, and 30% of the people are falling by the wayside. Right. I mean, that's that's something cool that you'll have forever. Uh, it'd be cool to reconnect with that guy from San Diego.

The Impact of Weather on Racing

SPEAKER_03 50:06

I can't remember what his name was, but we we got to finish a shot together going through. And it's that was I mean, that helped. I was like, I I think I probably could have still finished. I would have been struggling more. Far less comfortable or far more uncomfortable by myself.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

But you got the job done. Now, when you're do you continue to do Iron Man's? I see that at some point you kind of shift back to running marathons. Do you uh, or do you continue to do both?

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Well, you know, I continue to because so we were gonna do Iron Man California with this buddy who didn't wasn't able to finish quarter lane. And we get down there, and it was another weather issue. I'd never heard of an atmospheric river. And I feel like it's a relatively new term. It is, and but it you get down, and I got a great picture and video of you get at the start, and they have the big neon, it's it's like a baseball field, and they just big neon sign that says, Iron Man, anything is possible. And at five o'clock in the morning race day, they canceled the race. Oh. And so I mean the wind was blowing the rain sideways. They were apparently uh there's right after a drought, and so all these trees that had fallen or burned and wildfires are going down the river. Oh no. So it's just not safe. Yeah. It's like it's smart for them to cancel it, but that's hard. I think part of the hard thing about Iron Man races is you train for one day. And there aren't a lot of Iron Man races. You gotta wait months to get at it again. Yeah, so if there's a 5K or 10K you're doing, the cancel one this weekend, you could find one next week.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Uh but I ended up doing after that Iron Man Texas. And that was my last Iron Man for a while. Yeah, I got back to again with a family, it's it's hard at that point. Because by Texas, my daughter was born, my son was not yet born.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

And it's harder with kids to once you're married and you're fan job and everything. Yeah, there's too much on the plate to really be able to train like you would want to. Right. At what point do you uh it said that you ran the New York City Marathon with a friend of yours? Well, I was running, I ran with uh team in training.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

They've changed the name now. It used to be the Leukemia Society, and I think it's blood cancer or something. But team in training was what I had done at triathlon with in law school. Yeah. He raised money for cancer research. Um and one of my buddies, he and I had always talked, it'd be cool to join Boston at some point. But Boston, you have to either do a charity or qualify. It's not easy. Well, no, when I was in my late 20s, when he and I were kind of first starting up talking about it, early 30s, at 45, at my age now, you had to run like a 330 marathon. And now to qualify, you'd have to run 315, which still isn't fast enough. You really have to run like 308. And I'd not that's a lot. We had talked about doing that, and then that friend Colin um ended up get diagnosed with cancer. So I was like, I want to do this, raise money for Colin in his honor. And he could no longer run with you then. No, no. He was, I mean, I'd visit him at the hospital. It was, you know, he'd talk some about running. He'd like to talk about work. Uh my some of my work stories are kind of entertaining. I think anything that felt like normal life for him, but you know, as he knows that kind of this is the end's coming for me. Um, we would hang out, and it's like, well, this would be a cool thing to do in his honor. And it was talking to another buddy about who would also, we'd said, hey, we'd train and run and do a race. He'd moved to the East Coast. He was did Ironman races. He said, I I can't do anything right now. I got the stomach issue going on. I can't figure out what it is. I keep losing weight. Kind of like a mystery diagnosis thing going on. Yeah, he goes, but you know, starting to look like a really fast runner now because I'm losing so much weight. Um, and then he was pretty quiet about it. But I found out right my buddy Colin died after I didn't work. Um, it was right before this other friend died from it was cancer as well. And so below. Yeah, same month, both of them. And they both were like my age, kids, same age, married roughly the same amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

So it's like that could have their stories easier than it could have been me. Yeah, it's devastating to have young families and still have the bulk of your life ahead of you.

Running for a Cause: Honoring Friends

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Yeah, yeah. So that was doing it near, and then you know, New York is one of those races where you have to, you know, good qualify or do charity. It's just it's hard to get into because I think 40,000 people do it, but it's such a popular race. It's like that's if I'm gonna do it, that's I'm gonna have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Yeah. So you decide that you're gonna honor these guys and you're gonna you're gonna raise money, right? Right. Um, what's what is the plan there? What uh are you running alone? Are you did you like walk me through the plan with raising money for your buddies?

SPEAKER_03 54:46

I did that, I did all the training alone. It was that was one of the things that the difference in the group, the team and training stuff. When I was in law school and I did it in Birmingham, there was a group of us, like five of us training for the race together. And that was cool, especially with swim, go to do swim, go to do different rides and stuff. You have other people to do it with. With team and training, it was much bigger group. I didn't know anybody that so we weren't really training together. Um and I I missed that from where you know you raised money together. Like we put on a um, I think it was a dodgeball tournament or something just to raise money. So I didn't have that. So the training really wasn't much different. I mostly followed their training, but I had learned some over the years and asking friends who were coaches or better runners than I am, like training plans and running plans. So I I use their training plan a little bit, not a ton.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

I guess so, like with your fri with your two friends passing away, I think it's really commendable also that, you know, a lot of people fall into grief and let that consume them. And while, you know, I've I've lost some really good friends too, way too early. And and I think a a good way to mourn is to honor them, you know, and and from the time that I've known you, it seems like you've always got some sort of a a charitable angle that you're working. You're always trying to like raise money, like even Super Bowl squares, you're always got something where you're trying to do something good. Um you but you weren't done dealing with adversity, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:17

No, so I decided, and I think when I first decided to do New York and raise money with team and training, I knew Colin was sick. And that was kind of the my parents who were back and my sister are all on the East Coast, kind of encouraged me and and you know, gave me some money and helped with it. Uh, but then once Colin died, and then my other friend Mark died, both of whom were friends, didn't know each other, but I'd separately running friends who we talked about training for their qualifying for Boston or something like that. I decided to do try to do it again. Um and Boston was kind of my thought. But then talking to other running bodies and friends who are like, you know, London is awesome. Like Boston, everybody wants to do Boston because it's Boston. You start, you finish in like office building complexes and stuff. Yeah. And they're like, London, you finish at a castle, or New York, you finish in Central Park, or Berlin, you finish at the Brandenburg. So like and you can make it a little vacation too to go. My wife is gonna go with me. So London is a is a special place. Uh so yeah, they're gonna do London with a different group. It's called Haymakers for Hope. But the same idea raising money. Signed up with that. My parents were supporting that, and then yeah, in last July, my dad called my sister and me and was telling us he had a number of health issues, and they weren't sure what it was, and said that the doctors, on unofficial diagnosis, were saying he had multiple myeloma, which is a blood cancer. Oh my. So and he told us uh my dad and I don't tend to be the most emotional, like outwardly emotional, usually.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

It kind of looks like you're not necessarily into things, at least historically that's yeah, it could be crushing you on the inside, but you're you're not showing it outwardly. That's changed as I've gotten older, but historically that was kind of the We become more sensitive with time, right? And it's it's hard. You know, by the time you're an 85-year-old man, you cry at everything. Right. But you're you're only halfway there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:17

Right now. So he's saying, you know, in the car, but it I I'm actually driving home. Um, and I hit it on, you know, they did FaceTime, so sitting there, but I'm paying attention to and he said, you know, but you know, I've had a good life. You guys, my sister Amy, who's two years older than I am, I've had a good life. You all are been a big part of that. You know, he's he's ready to go, essentially. It's like, you know, I don't want to do one of the things I didn't realize with cancer, especially blood cancers, the cancer uses so much of the sugar and everything in your bodies. A lot of people have to go through dialysis, which I've learned is horrible. Yeah.

Facing Family Health Challenges

SPEAKER_00 58:52

And he's like, at age, I don't want to do dialysis. I don't want to have to go through that stuff. So did he, in that initial phone call, he's basically telling you he's he's okay with all this?

SPEAKER_03 59:03

He's okay with, I mean, he's he accomplished a lot. Uh, one of the things that it's been special for me to be able to continue on is for decades, my dad has been trying, he writing up these stories about this character, old Joe Grady, and he was trying to get this book published. I remember when I was in college, I got it bound, because I had to get my thesis bound and wrote a little foreword for it and saying, Well, you know, Harry Potter, it's about his kid on a broomstick. Why wouldn't somebody want to publish this book? Well, in June, a month about a month and a half, maybe before he got really sick, and then which you're kind of leading into my father ended up dying a few weeks after he told us that he might have cancer, he signed a contract to publish his book. And so it's like, he's not gonna get to see it in print. But the accomplishment of I've been doing this and working on this in retirement, he'd sit outside with his dog, his chocolate lab, sitting next to him and work on the book. So it's like he'd accomplished all this stuff, but he he was he was said peace.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

And it's really cool to keep that legacy going. And when you can get that totally completed, that his name living on the cover of that book is important, right? It's that's forever. I can only imagine uh what was going through your head. And I know you said you're not the most outwardly emotional person, but for me, you know, if I heard that from my dad, who is, you know, like my hero and he's my handyman when I can't do it, and he's the my confidant and he's my you know one of my greatest supporters, you know, to not be, I feel like you got blindsided. Right, you know, it's like three weeks is no time to say goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

No, I mean, and and he noticed I was starting to get emotional in the car on the drive. And we thought, it's a not a I don't think it's a curable, but it's a treatable cancer. So we thought, you know, he's time to exactly. But then I think it was a week maybe after that. My sister called me and said, Mom can't get dad to wake up. Um and she called, she went to the hot, they live in North Carolina in the same city in Raleigh. She went, I could hear them like talking to the EMTs and all this stuff. And the EMT still was just his blood sugar was low. But he still wasn't waking up. And so I asked my sister, I said, Is it really that? Should I book a flight? Should I come home? She was, yeah. So I flew out that night.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

And I I remember because you know, it was during soccer, uh, and I'm sorry to, you know, drum this stuff up because I know it's emotional, but I my heart was breaking for you because I knew what you were going through. And you are a strong guy. Uh you, you know, you would come there to soccer and you would you would talk almost like you were speaking about someone else. But I know how how important, you know, your your dad is, you know, and and uh my heart breaks for you that you didn't get a chance to, you know, say goodbye, goodbye, you know, because I and I don't know if you did, but it it feels like when you still think you have some time, right? And he's kind of sugarcoating it to protect you guys, and then inevitably that happens, it's it's gotta be a tough pill to swallow.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

Yeah, and then you're at the hospital and the doctor's, you know, you know, I don't want to give you false hope, but also hope that, you know, hey, you know, we're trying to get him to uh to wake up or do all these different things. And so you start looking at the machines thinking, oh, his blood pressure is going up or down or whatever is a little hope, yeah, flips, but nothing. And I mean, one of the hardest decisions, but also easiest decisions I've ever had to be a part of was they said after 14 days, if we can't get him to wake up, we'll have to do a tracheotomy. And my mom, my sister, and I, my mom wanted my sister, we were like, Mom, this is your decision to make. Yeah. She said, No, I want you and Amy part of it. I want you to be there and help make this decision. And it's one of the easiest, because we were all like, you wouldn't want that. And it's one of the hardest because you're ultimately saying, you know, he's gonna die. Yeah. Uh so that yeah, I mean, that was hard. I fortunately I was able to get I was able to be back for that. Um and I kind of a funny, a little bit funny story. My dad had a beard most of my life. Twice I've seen him without a beard. Once it was in summer camp in the call at the college where he taught. And he was playing an admiral of the navy and had to shave his beard to look like an Admiral of the Navy. I didn't recognize. And then at the hospital, the the all the machines and stuff, they weren't, the tubes weren't staying like they're supposed to. And so they shaved him, and I walked in the room and walked out at first because I didn't recognize. Um, but fortunately I was able to be back for that. I my flight was delayed out of Portland. It's like you're just tapping your foot. It's like I'm usually pretty calm about that kind of stuff. Not this time. I I have to get to North Carolina. I can't, and so they had to re-book me a number of different ways. And I had my daughter with me. She, we didn't take her to the hospital. She wanted to see Papa, and I said, No, I don't want her to see him like that, or to take a look because you'd always comment about Papa and his beard. She drinks milk, it's a little mustache. Look at Papa. So she was able to stay with some friends, but yeah, I mean, having to having to go there and be a part of it was like it's tough.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

I think you made the right decision, though. You know, my dad has this thing um where and he he talks to us about it because my mom won't listen to it because she's like, I'm gonna keep you here no matter what. And I think part of it is she doesn't want to be alone. They've been together their entire lives since they were like 10. It's it's crazy. But he says to me all the time, don't leave me in a room like that where I'm just inching along. If I'm miserable, set me free. Right. You know, don't have me hate my life because you need me here. Yeah and that's a that's tough to hear because you know, forever I was like, shut up. Right. We're gonna do whatever we want to keep you here, but that's not my call.

Legacy and Moving Forward

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

Yeah, no, and it was he wouldn't have been able to, because he would have had me doing treatment, had to be in rehab, and it's like he wouldn't be able to see the grandkids, or at least play with the grandkids. So it's like he liked to do box sports with the kids, yeah, or water gun fights or dance competitions. Like, wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff. Um, and he didn't want it was I think he was really, really afraid. I almost said deathly afraid, but really, really afraid of not being all there when he passed. Yeah. You know, like the getting Alzheimer's or anything like that. He told me once he started to get into learning in retirement, he started learning Spanish. And he said, I want to keep my mind fresh and I hate crosswords. But he was working on his book up until the night he wouldn't wake up. And so it's like his mind was still there. So that's good. He got to go his way.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

Doing what he loved. Right. And you're keeping that legacy alive. You're working on finishing up that book. And so I think it's I think that's really cool that you're keeping the legacy. See going there, but you're not stopping at that. You have a bigger plan. And I want to discuss what you're doing to honor your dad. The Fit for Radio podcast is brought to you by the Stafford Hills Club. And when you come here, you will notice the difference. The sense of community is amazing. People smiling, happy. They hold the door for you around here. And of course, it's one of those clubs that when you sign up, they want you to come back. They want you to be happy and healthy, because then we can all be together for a long time. Check out all the amenities and everything they have to offer at staffordhills.com. Tell them Drew sent you and get half off your initiation.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

Yeah, so much like uh team in training when I did New York, um, I'd already, before my dad got sick, signed up to do the London marathon with a group called Haymakers for Hope, which doesn't seem to make much sense for a running group. Yeah, how'd that come about? Well, I did a bunch of research um about doing London um and different organizations. You know, there's team in training, but other different groups. And one of the things I liked about Haymakers for Hope, so it started out, they're based in Boston, but it started out as a boxing thing. Okay. Raising money. So it's that's the Haymakers makes sense there. Uh but one of the things that they do a lot that I I liked about it was what they call survivorship. And so they would do these boxing events and help cancer survivors train and do, you know, so they've got something else to do. But it also raises money. You know, I can't remember exactly what the number is, but the vast majority of the money goes to cancer research, help supporting families, the survivorship kind of aspects. And so that really fit when I signed up initially, was for my friends Colin and Mark, who had passed away. And then again, my dad and mom were really supportive of it. But then when he died, it was like another person, kind of the cancer kind of pushed it into hyperdrive here. Right. So, even more so, kind of want to accomplish that for him. And my dad, one of the things on my that fundraising page I had to do, I took from his book a perfect line that I also used in his eulogy, which was the character wants to stay alive until he dies. He doesn't want to just survive, he wants to experience life, he wants to stay alive and truly live it, not just be there. And he wants to live life like a kid. And I said, that was my dad at 82 years old, water gun fights with my kids, box for box forts. And so I want to really push that. And that's kind of been part of the idea behind it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:23

It's amazing. And, you know, it's so much, it reminds me of my dad so much wanting to live and not be alive. And I'm gonna take that away uh with me. Now, you're gonna try and raise$10,000 for cancer research. That's the goal. Right.$10,000 is what my goal is with Paymakers for Hope.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:43

Okay. Anything above that screen, but that's my kind of my minimum I need to raise.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

So we're gonna try and move the needle on that. We're gonna put a link to where people can donate and they can support. And I invite people to share and to kind of uh, you know, get your story out there. And that's why I wanted to get you on now, because it's super important. We're on a limited time scale in order to raise that money. And and of course, raising the money at any point is all going for good. But uh, we want to help Rob achieve his goal, honor his friends and his dad, um, who I'm sure would be extremely proud of not just the man that you are, the legacy that you're carrying, but uh and the father that you are that I see all the time. Um, but the fact that uh you care enough about other people uh to do this and to raise this money, and uh it's commendable.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:34

I appreciate it. Yeah, I uh I looked this morning, actually a friend, a retired sheriff's deputy who I I got to be friends with and can joke with, who actually coincidentally had stomach cancer surgery and he's is okay now. But he's he's he donated some today, some at a little over$9,000, some$1,000.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

Oh, you're getting close here. Well, then let's shatter that goal and go well over because it's not gonna stop you at 10, right? Like you raise whatever you can.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:59

Go to whatever you can, but that's awesome. You've got to get at least to$10,000. So I'm so$9,081 or something. I saw this morning when I looked. So I'm getting close.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

Yeah, and it's all a write-off. So go ahead and donate and do something good. And you know, it's nice. I think I am a big supporter of charity, of course, but I love something that is, you know, that you can actually see that's gonna go towards a certain type of a deal to help people and not just some ambiguous fund. Um, so haymakers for hope, like I said, we'll have the link right there for you. Now, um, I think there's some key takeaways from from you. And one of them is, and this is a compliment, not a diss, but that you don't have to be extraordinary to do amazing things, right? Like you can, and I've I'll use myself as the example first and foremost, and you can piggyback along if you want. When I say I'm born painfully average, but I have accomplished some things physically that other people don't do, and it's just from pure determination. Yeah. It's just from refusing to quit and and maybe uh ignorance to pain and things like that, which you have to have in order to do things that you don't think you're capable of. But I think you are an example of of that. Do you would you agree that that part of the reason you're able to do all these things is is resilience and drive, or or is it uh just the LeBron James inside of you?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:29

No, uh I mean it definitely it's the the passion for, I mean, for me, starting out and and always doing something after this running or biking is discovery, it's a good kind of out for me as far as you know, my job to be stressful at times.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

As a criminal defense attorney, I'm guessing there is stress and anxiety and everything in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:49

And so that gives me kind of an outlet to relieve that so you you know you're not taking it out on your family. Um, but it's being able to accomplish a goal, being able to get to a certain thing, and then just I mean, almost maybe almost hard-headedness because I've hit those points in races where it's like, gosh, I don't know, it's a long way to go. I did one of these high rocks kind of endurance, physical strength things. And I struggled at the very last event, and it's like I've already done all these other things, and it's hard, but I'm gonna finish this whether it takes me forever or not. Most people do it in like five to seven minutes, this last event. And it took me 20. I kept hitting the women's thing at eight feet, not the men's at 10. But it's like, I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna, I want to finish it, I want to do it. And that, I mean, I think that has less to do with athletic ability than just mental. And a lot of it, like for a marathon, most people don't run a full marathon to train. You run 18, 20 miles, and from there it's all mental. And I that's a big part of it, is that most people could accomplish it if they have the the mental ability, the drive to do it. It's not about the physical, you know. Somebody told me one time, an Iron Man especially, it's not about who's fastest, it's who slows down the least. And I think for most people, too, in that kind of a thing is it's not, you know, you don't have to win to be impressive. You don't have to win for people to chat with you and talk with you and say congrats. It's about, hey, you did it. And that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

And belief is such a strong thing to believe that you can do it. And, you know, and even, you know, and sometimes I I even say this that even if I seem dumb in thinking that I can, that's what drives me to pull it off. Because if I if I use like actual brain power and any lick of intelligence I have left, I'm probably gonna talk myself out of it. Right. But just that, no, I I can do that because I'm just not gonna stop. Well, if my legs fall over or, you know, like back to the push-up thing when my body started to like go into a full-blown like seas, yeah, I'd run out of time. I'd run out of power, but you believe until the moment you can't that you can. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:00

But I think it's for me also it's the humbling movements that help. The doggy paddling, uh a swim where you know, you can't, it's hard to stop in the middle of a swim. You can go over and get help from a boat or something like that. It's well, if I can, if I can finish a swim doggy paddling, then you know, it can't get much worse. Yeah. I can I can only go up. Or, you know, the guy in a firefighter's uniform and an 82-year-old nun pass me or finish about the same time I do, you know, should be able to figure out how to do this. Oh, absolutely. I think that helps. The humbling moments make you stronger. And I think that helps also mentally, especially, to go, okay, I can do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:36

Yeah, because you don't ever learn as much or even remember as much when it goes smoothly. Right. It's you remember the the bike crash, you remember the high heat, you remember the doggy paddle. Because those are when, okay, now I'm being tested. Right. Now this is what has Rob got on, you know, what's fifth gear where I just turn it to that last notch to get there. And and I think a lot of people don't believe they have that, but they do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:04

I think it's so important that the you have to experience that. That's why I think, especially with our like our girls' soccer, they're not the best team a lot of the times. I was like, you have to learn how to lose, you have to learn adversity and how to move on from it. I think that's so important. If you win every game, you know, there's only one person that's going to be the best in every event, every all the time. And you got to learn how to to still succeed even when you don't win. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:29

And to come back next time with the belief that you could win. Right. You know, because even if you get drummed 10-0, you know, I don't, I don't drive Josie, my daughter, to soccer the next week and say, remember, we got drummed by 10, so just be ready for it. No, I on the way there, you make them believe that they're going to win this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:48

And if you don't, then you've learned that lesson and you walk through it there that way. But come in every time, not just hungry, but with the belief that you're going to come away victorious. And, you know, you hope that that rubs off on them and then their kids. And then one day, uh I'm making box forts uh with them and and water gun fights and and the whole deal. And it all comes full circle. And I and I've had the privilege of being around you and your family and and your great people, you're raising great kids, um, and you're uh you're finding a way to balance, you know, these these amazing like athletic feats with being a criminal defense attorney and a good parent. So it's commendable. And I think that um your your mom and dad um are proud of that. You know, they think that they've they've raised a good man.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:38

Yeah, I mean, I think it's an important thing for me, I think it's the humility, being humble about stuff. And but also recognizing that you know, people look at runners or things like that, and it's you know, anybody could do it if you really want to. And it doesn't take, you know, again, there's only one person that's the fastest. There's only one person that's the strongest. Can you find joy in it not being the fastest? Can you get better as a person or just in general and lifestyle? I mean, those to me are the important things. You don't have to win.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:10

And your personal victory. Right. You know, like you don't have to be first across the finish line to win. If you're running a triathlon or an Iron Man and you finish, like to me, from someone who's never done that, that's amazing. Like that in itself is incredible. And, you know, when you when you chase big things, sometimes you don't see that. Right. Because you're like, no, but I I wanted this time. Oh, I wanted the world record in push-ups. And I remember my whole family was here like trying to help me stay cool, stay hydrated. And my dad had bruised thumbs from holding the, you know, doing the clicker. And they told me afterwards, they're like, stop. Look at your number. Right. Like that's an incredible number. It's not the world record. You didn't, you didn't win the record, but you won. Right. And and it's tough sometimes to see that, but I think it's about keeping your goals in perspective and realizing that on a grand scale, that might be amazing in itself, and don't be so hard on yourself about it. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:10

I mean, I saw, I think it was an ad or something not long ago where it's like, you know, 15-minute miles is, you know, it's moving and it's not an 11-minute mile, all these decisions. But a 15-minute mile is a lot more and a lot faster than 90, whatever percent of the people in the world do. Exactly. So it's just, you know, your own personal accomplishments, you're getting there and being happy with what you accomplished. To me, that's what's important. It doesn't, it doesn't have to compare to, oh, this other person. You know, it's good to have that with friends, that little competitive, you know, hey, I want to beat this friend, or he's not gonna run more miles than I am, or whatever it is, or do more push-ups than I do. But being happy with, hey, I accomplished this goal, that's good enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:51

And I'll give you, as we're wrapping up here, I'll give you my um my running thing that kind of associates to this. So in middle school, I had a friend who was a cross-country runner, and his dad convinced me to go to some cross-country races with them and just like run. And those were a little sketchy, but I also used to run the 1500 meters in middle school. And I was not the fastest guy, but I had managed to slip in, and I think maybe one of the guys had gotten hurt or something. I was managed to slip in to districts in the 1500 meters. And I was like, okay, well, this is huge. We got there and I got lapped by the guy who won it. It's four laps, right? And he lapped me. And I think it was a lap and a half by the time he finished, and it was the last distance race I ever ran. And it at the time I was like humiliated. But as I got older, and like even just a few years older, I made it to districts in the 1500 meters. And nobody, nobody else was doing that. And now I wasn't overly talented or anything, but I had to run it fast enough to get to districts. And so as I got older, that was the accomplishment. Not getting lapped by that dude who crushed and he probably went on to like D1 sports. Right. But I I remember being so humbled and then realizing that the accomplishment wasn't me trying to win state. That wasn't gonna happen. But the accomplishment was I went from a guy who didn't run at all to making districts. Right. And so it's really about keeping things in perspective and knowing that uh your best, a lot of times, if you just take a breath, is good enough. Yeah. Um, so I want to make sure that people, one more time, don't forget to go and donate to Haymakers for Hope. And let's get Rob Crow well over that$10,000 and honor your buddies, honor your dad and everybody else who's fought cancer, this brutal, brutal thing that we all hate so much. And I can't thank you enough for coming in here. And you're so busy, you're gonna go put on a suit and go to court after this. Oh, yeah. Um, so thank you for taking the time and uh good luck in there um with the judge. All right, thanks, Drew. All right, you're the man. Cheers.